I met Philippa Gregory and Margaret George at the National Book Festival!
So the National Book Festival was in friggin AUGUST and I still haven’t posted these pictures of me with some of my favorite authors up anywhere so here, here they are finally.
I went to see Philippa Gregory really, but I was delighted to realize that I knew the other author on the Historical Fiction panel as well: Margaret George! She wrote a wonderful book called “The Autobiography of Henry VIII” that I read years ago and really loved; it’s one of the very few books I’ve ever read that chronicles Henry’s life from beginning to end and it offered a great POV that I really appreciated. I still often think of it when I’m learning about Henry VIII in different contexts.
It was really inspiring to hear them discuss different aspects of their work; I basically want to be them when I grow up so I’m really happy I got to hear them talk!
Me with Philippa Gregory, getting my Tidelands book signed!
Various quotes and tidbits: (these are from my notes and are as accurate as possible, but I was taking them rather quickly so there may be some errors)
Research:
Margaret George and Philippa Gregory both said they prefer to visit the places in which the events of their books occurred if possible.
PG: “Research is really just lots of reading. Which is a good thing to say at a book festival. Some people think there’s a secret trick like you go talk to people and they tell you everything but no, it’s really just reading.”
How their books relate to modern issues:
MG said Nero is oddly a modern character. “He wanted to be an artist - but instead he had to be an emperor- so many people had died to make him emperor that he couldn’t really say no, I want to go be an artist.”
PG: “[The presence of modern issues in my books] is not intentional- but I can’t shut the door on it- the whole idea is to have a window onto history - just by reading my book you can tell I’m from Sussex university in the 1980s. You can’t escape your own consciousness…. I try not to be anachronistic in any way, I try not to drag in politics like a cat dragging in a dead bird, like ‘because I’m interested in this you must be in it.’”
MG: you can date movies by the time period they’re filmed in- from their makeup and hair, etc - books are the same.
Moderator: that’s why historiography is so interesting - likes to see what other people on the past thought of their history and how that informed their lives
Interesting things about their characters:
MG: Nero wasn’t even there at the Fire of Rome. But people at the time said he was performing his ode to the fall of Troy (he had a thing about Troy), and they said the backdrop was just too much to resist, so he would go play it there. But it bothered him because the truth was the opposite. The common people loved Nero!
Tacitus said wild improprieties - it was really just chariot riding and acting. Nero couldn’t get an honest judgment at the time whether he was really any good as an artist. So we can’t get an honest answer in modern day either.
Only 4 lines of his poetry survived. None of his music. Golden house survived but that’s it - it’s the only proof we have of his artistic talent
PG: The extent of the way women were treated in medieval society - that Henrietta Maria (queen of Charles I) - she was catholic so English schools had taught against her - she was very authoritative and bossy with her . “We don’t like bossy little women, which is a pity, since many of us are.” /laughs, claps/
Has a reputation as a bad adviser. What I didn’t know- she landed in England under cannon fire with her army and marches around England as a queen militant. She was far more courageous and enterprising than history books say. The slight bias of history- how it obscures some really interesting women.
Me with Margaret George, getting my Confessions of Young Nero copy signed!
Why PG switched from writing about royalty to writing about a commoner (in Tidelands):
I wrote by royalty very much as an accident. What I was interested in was women in history and you can only find out about women in history if they’re around important men. Eg we don’t know Anne Boleyn’s birthday. There are so many women of just such huge interest who played such a big role in English history that we only know about if they’re associated with the king- etc - Elizabeth Woodville (know she’s with the king or pregnant). Mary Boleyn- led to interest in Catherine- to MIL Elizabeth Woodville, And then 20 years later you look up and find yourself an expert on English royalty and I am by character and interest anti-monarchy.
And people ask me about royal weddings and such and Reaky, they’re just very boring. I’m interested in tyrants really, the boleyns and the Tudors and the Plantagenets bit when you get to the Windsors, just not really interested
For her Midwife character: got a lot of records from criminal trials for witchcraft (which aren’t necessarily content-helpful because it’s about men saying why she’s a witch) all the evidence at the trial is truly male sexual fantasy and fiction but it GIVES you information about these women who were tried and then unfortunately burned
In Tudor Times there were women harvesting gangs that would harvest and drink and it sounds like a good party. Well that had to go away as nobles enclosed more and more of the land. There was growth of the idea that poverty shouldn’t be resolved by individual gifts but in an organized way. You can’t just go knock on your neighbor’s and ask for help now, have to go apply for help- it was very alienating.
Setting- the tides in and out, sets the entire course of the day. Tide mills - operates as a usual mill but it runs based on the tide - used to be hundreds of them. Now there are only 2 - went to one and talked to the miller and had one of the most comical conversations ever in researching a book. “If you were going to put a woman on the wheel to say, drown her, how would you do that?” Looked at her in horror and said “Nobody has ever asked that” “well how would you” “well how heavy is she?”
MG: Agrippina was a huge driver of Nero’s life. He fell in love with a freedwoman in youth and wanted to marry her, friends his entire life, willed her things, she held Nero’s funeral. In Rome, women had no political office, so they were strong behind the scenes, but they were not allowed in public life.
Compared Nero to The Godfather _ dark side etc (her feelings, not historical record).
3 sides - son of Augustus/young emperor, artistic side, dark side who made the other two possible
Nero’s coinage is really considered super beautiful. The coins show his face changing as he gains weight and gets a double chin
A lot of the judgment about him was around the time - emperor Hadrian had a lot in common with him and we love him- but that occurred 50-60 years later. MG compares their respective reputations to the way we talk about same sex marriage and race now versus 50-60 years ago.
What do you want readers to come away with?
PG: It makes her happy when readers are inspired to study history after reading her novel. She wants her readers to like the novel and say it’s good really. Some people reflect on their lives and such. But really I want them to think it’s a good book and then buy the next one.
MG- going for a Shakespearean tragedy feel of “woe and wonder.”
Q&As:
Is it harder to write dialogue of historical people or composite fictionalized people?
MG: Finds it easier to do historical, sine you have a record, and know what they might say.
PG: with a known character, it can be lovely to weave their real speech in there if you can. Plus most of what people think they know about historical women is incorrect- she enjoys taking on well known women and being out new sides of them.
MG feels same way
Queer or LGBT people portrayals?
MG- Nero dresses up a guy as his dead wife (maybe more of a grief and necrophilia thing)
PG- there isn’t enough historical research yet on the subject for her to include it in her books. Thankfully it’s being done now. Plus, it’s hard to know what is lesbian behavior in historical books like, women sleeping in the same bed together in Jane Austen. There’s no intercourse- but why is intercourse the standard of a romantic relationship?
How they respond to critics that say book is historically inaccurate:
MG: tries to use the sources that are most reliable
PG: if someone tells me I did something wrong, like someone landed in the wrong place- I alter it in next edition. And send them a signed book as a thank you
If they say it’s wrong and it’s right I just grind my teeth.
Research organization?
MG- uses note cards , once you have a cohesive story line, easier to lay out
PG- files and books and such. But it’s the stuff that sticks in the mind that makes the story. As a novelist, you shouldn’t gift the reader your hours and hours of tedious study. They can do that if they want.
Love of history or writing first?
MG- First did writing.
PG- loves writing but also loves history. “I’m so blessed to be able to work in a genre that combines the two. I can’t imagine having one without the other .”